Transcript by Maxwell Ofori, Parliament House, Accra Chairman of Committee, Joseph Osei Owusu reads the Parliamentary prayer for the commencement of the vetting – Honorable Members since it’s the sitting of the House I think we shall pray. Almighty God, we humbly beseech Thee to look with favour upon this Parliament of the Republic of […]
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Transcript by Maxwell Ofori, Parliament House, Accra
Chairman of Committee, Joseph Osei Owusu reads the Parliamentary prayer for the commencement of the vetting – Honorable Members since it’s the sitting of the House I think we shall pray.
Almighty God, we humbly beseech Thee to look with favour upon this Parliament of the Republic of Ghana. Grant that it may perform its sight duty as in thy sight. Give divine guidance to the President of the Republic, endow members of Parliament and Ministers of State the discernment and vision, integrity and courage that through the labors of government this land and people may be well and truly served and the good purposes for the common human life be realized in our midst.
Oh God grant us the vision of our country, fair as it might be, a country of righteousness where none shall wrong his neighbor, a country of plenty where evil and poverty shall be done away with. A country of brotherhood where all success shall be founded on service and honor shall be given to the deserving.
A country of peace where government shall rest on the will of the people and the love for the common good. Bless the effort of those who struggle to make this vision a living reality. Inspire and strengthen our people that they may give time, thought and sacrifice to speed the day of the coming beauty of Ghana and Africa amen.
Chairman’s opening remarks – I welcome members to the first meeting of the Appointments Committee of the 7th Parliament. And I welcome all other invited guests who are assembled here to this meeting…. May I now invite the Clerk to invite the first nominee, Hon Yaw Osafo Maafo.
Nominee takes Oath – I Yaw Osafo Maafo, swear by the Almighty God that the evidence I shall give before this committee touching the matter in issue shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God
Chairman – Hon Yaw Osafo Maafo, on behalf of the committee I wish to congratulate you on your nomination by the President to the position of a Senior Minister of his government. May I start by asking you to give us a short brief of yourself.
OsafoMaafo introduces himself – Mr Chairman, Members of the committee, I was born on the 24th of December, 1942 at Akyem Awisa. Educated at the Presbyterian primary and boarding school at Akyem Awisa then at Achimota School for ‘A’ and ‘O’ Levels. Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology for my Engineering Degree in Mechanical Engineering. Worked at Valco at the process and quality control engineer, left Valco to join the Ghana Investment Center. It’s an investment center and I worked as investment promotion officer.
Later I was taken to Frankfurt. I came back to Ghana after that period and joined the Bank for House and Construction as the Chief Manager in charge of operations, rose through the ranks to become the Chief Managing Director of the bank, later I was taken to the National Investment Bank as the Managing Director.
Later I became Member of Parliament for Akyem Oda constituency in opposition in the beginning, still as the Member of Parliament for Akyem Oda I became minister of Finance and Economic Planning, Minister of Education and Sports. I am a very strong football enthusiast; in between I became director of Asante Kotoko and very much closely associated with the Methodist church. I’ve been a member of the Methodist conference since 1987 and a member of the Methodist council. Founding member of the Methodist university council, the Methodist church council, the finance committee of the church since 1987. Basically, Mr Chairman, this will be my background.
Chairman – Before I open the floor, can you tell us briefly what is your brief? What has the President ask you to do in that position as a senior minister?
Osafo Maafo answers
Thank you very much. I think for the first time in the history of this country, the President decided just not to name his ministers but he invited the ministers in groups, called us one by one and told the whole country what he wanted each to perform and why he want them to perform. I’ve also had intensive discussion with the President about my position as the Senior Minister. From our manifesto, one of the major targets of the President is to transform the economy because as you are aware the economy is in some difficulty. We are now in an IMF programme and we’ve got to come out with flying colours.
The President told me specifically that we, that is the NPP have had a senior minister before in the person of Mr J.H. Mensah whom I worked with because at the time I was the minister of finance and he coordinated the economic sector ministries. When you talk about the economic sector ministries, you take all the ministers, you have social sector, you have the infrastructure sector, you have the economic sector and then you have governance and security.
All the productive sectors are referred to as economic sector. And they will be a major block as a subcommittee of Parliament and coordinate the activities of the economic sectors of his cabinet as it may be. And he wanted me to bring my experience as a minister of finance, as somebody who have done a similar job in Uganda, a similar job in Liberia to bear to try and – you see no ministry when you talk about the economic ministry is independent of the central economy.
The reason why industryis not working is there may be lack of capital and this relates to ministry of finance, this relates to the banks so I’m playing a coordinating role for the economic sector as it were. The economic sector relates to other ministries, so naturally my experience would be brought upon to bear on my colleagues to make sure that we resuscitate the economy in a very homogenized manner so that there will be harmony, we all sing from the same hymn sheet as it were.
Haruna Iddrissu– Hon Osafo Maafo, this is a meeting of record, do I take it that you are assuming that your role as senior minister would be to coordinate the economic sectors of this government and that will assume that none economic ministries will not be under your purview; is that the case?
Osafo Maafo answers – Yes and no. when you talking about the economic sector of the ministry it also relate to other sectors and, therefore, when you are playing that role of coordinating that your main job primarily would be to coordinate activities of the economic sectors but it has it influence on the other sectors so you will be linking up also with them.
When we talk about the economy, it is the economy that drives the whole system so you can’t isolate it per say I will be linking with other ministries as it were.
Hon Nii Lante Vandapuje, MP for Odododiodio– Hon Osafo Maafo, first let me ask from your brief, you are to transform the economy, coordinate the economic sector ministries. What will be your relationship between your office, the NDPC [National Development Planning Commission] and the Ministry of Finance?
Osafo Maafo answers– Thank you very much. If you look at the constitution carefully, the NDPC is a super planning center. They are supposed to have the national planning and also be responsible for the secretarial of the national planning.
Their national planning is not only for the economic ministries, it affects every other [aspect] of the country and, therefore, the relationship would be that of cooperation. As a minister linking and coordinating the economic ministries there very, very close relationship between me and whoever would be responsible for planning. Indeed we will be colleagues and friends. We have to be to make sure that we coordinate properly.
Nii Lante– Have you per chance seen the 40 years Development Plan?
Osafo Maafo answers – I was involved in the primary discussions of the 40 year Development Plan. In fact, I was consulted in the matter in the discussions. I made my views clear from day one that I did not believe in planning in excess of ten years because of exigencies of world economics and, therefore, I would prefer that we restrict ourselves to a 10 year Development Plan.
And I gave some specific notes of mine particularly in the infrastructure side. DrNii-Moi Thompson who was working on this called me a couple of times to talk about it but I haven’t seen the final outcome of the 40 year Development Plan.
But I have had some inputs into it relating to infrastructure, relating to what I call the blood for this system which is power, which is energy. I feel very strongly but sufficiency of energy to run every country so I gave my views about it, I haven’t seen the final product.
Nii Lante asks another question – Mr Osafo Maafo, you contributed to the formulation of the policy but you haven’t seen the final document. Government is continuous, your government and your President has said he will want to pursue some of the lofty agenda of the preceding government.
The basis of economic development in the 40 year plan is supposed to be as you said coordinated by your outfit. If you haven’t seen the document, how are you to effectively coordinate these ministries and what do you think the 40 year development plan seeks to achieve?
Osafo Maafo answers – I think I said I have some inputs. In fact they met the whole caucus of the NPP in our headquarters to discuss initially the 40 year development plan. Vice President and myself expressed, our views on the length of time. Now that we are in power we are surely going to have a critical look at that programme. We [are] not going to swallow it hook and line, certainly not. As I said I made my view clear that I do not believe in planning beyond 10 years and I still stand by that.
We will look at the 40 year development plan, it is important that every country like Ghana should have a long term planning, particularly with respect to infrastructure. So we will definitely look at it and where modifications are necessary we will make it after thinking through. Those who originated it are in the country and I believe in consultation here and there to make sure we are singing from the same hymn sheet.
Hon Anthony Karbo, MP for Lawra grills the nominee – Thank you very much Hon Chairman. Hon Osafo Maafo, Senior Minister Designate, the President has indicated that his goal is to build the most business friendly and people economy in Africa which will create jobs and prosperity for all Ghanaians. I want to find out, from the brief that you gave us you are suppose to coordinate the economic sector ministries, oversee governance and security and general coordination of government programmes.
What are some of the practical steps that can be taken to achieve this business friendly and people friendly economy in the context of the current IMF [International Monetary Fund] programme and whether or not this government is going to open some negotiations or renegotiate aspects of the IMF programme? Thank you.
Osafo Maafo answers – Your question is very complicated but let’s break it into two. I want to deal with, from our manifesto we want to create a business friendly environment. When you talk of economic sectors it includes the Ministry of Lands and Natural resources. One of the major hindrances to businesses in Ghana is land acquisition. In fact the method if so complicated. So when you look at it many of you have had experience you don’t understand. To really make the environment business friendly we’ve got to look and look again at land acquisition system in this country and as a senior minister coordinating these economic ministries that will be one of my focuses.
Because people ready to invest and some of them are put off because of people selling lands to them two three, multiple sale of same land that’s another thing sometimes it’s embarrassing. Some these look small but they are complicated. Rent system in this country, now there is nowhere in the world where you pay rent advance 2 years. There is nowhere in the world. If you go to Germany by law you can’t take more done 3 months. In our part of the world people can take two years. When there was a problem in Cote d’lvoire people wanted to relocate from Cote d’lvoire to Ghana I was involved.
They were put off by the rent advance because if he’s going to get a premises for $5000 and he’s to pay for 2 years advance five times twelve sixty thousand times two one twenty thousand. That is you are taking him of his capital and therefore these are some of the things too obvious harmful to the economy but this harmful to the economy. Many of them were not prepared to borrow additionally to rent houses in Accra so, therefore, they moved to other places so these are areas we have to look at to make the environment business friendly. We talking about business friendly environment is also among foreigners, not only Ghanaians, but also among foreigners.
There are these small, small things try to get the company registered in this country and some of you have gone through and you know it some of this exercise you don’t understand why we should make some of these simple things so difficult for ourselves as a country. It could have persisted through government.
And I think I would really want to hit at them and get Parliament to help us to straighten some of these things from the law angle because if there is law that you can’t take more than three months rent advance then there is law everybody will obey it. But as long as you leave it free of charge then people will take it. I will say that I live on rent I will prefer two years but I don’t think it’s fair to the business environment.
Now the IMF programme, it will certainly be reviewed and there are two main reasons why the IMF programme must be removed. I have already hinted one of the bosses of the IMF. Now President Nana Akufo-Addo came out with a manifesto and that manifesto needs fiscal space to move it. The current programme literally squeezes out all the fiscal space out and, therefore, from the point of view of the programme of the NPP the IMF programme must be reviewed. Two, now the IMF programme works along achieving targets and the targets are set between the government and the IMF.
So far most of the targets have been missed. And therefore whether we even ask for it not the IMF themselves would want the programme reviewed because if we talk about ensuring that your growth at the end of the year is 5.3% and your growth end of the year is 3.3% is way out. Even when talk of deficit being not more than 5% and everybody thought that deficit was about 5% figures I’m seeing from Bank of Ghana deficit is around 8 and 9% that is enough for the IMF itself to request for review because you can’t go when you haven’t met the target, going on with what and therefore the programme would certainly be reviewed from two angle.
Anthony Karbo questions again – Thank you my next question Mr Chairman (Chairman inject)
Chairman – Before you proceed I think it’s important to put it on record that in Ghana there’s a law which says that for domestic accommodation you cannot take more than three month and for commercial accommodation you cannot take more than six months. The challenge is the enforcement and lawyers have a way of going round that.
Anthony Karbo proceeds – Thank you very much Mr Chairman. My next question is Hon Minister designate, the President has indicated that his economic programme is going to shift the focus from economic management from taxation to production. My question is and I guess many people in the public will agree that it is come out for discussion.
Without taxation how is government going to raise the revenue to support production? So what are the steps or measures you are going to put in place to ensure that this idea of moving away from taxation to production is achieved?
Osafo Maafo answers – Thank you very much. This is an important question. Government is not saying that it will not collect taxes. There are some taxes I describe as nuisance tax because the efforts of even doing the collection is not worth it. You create hindrances in production and one such tax is the financial sector VAT tax.
You are taxing banks on their profit as you tax all other companies. Now the financial sector transaction has deals with operations within the bank what would have been COT and others related issues. We want to tax those even to come out with figures after the operations itself is a problem to the bank that is why they want to tax the seventeen and half percent tax and we should do away with it.
Now you talked about corporate tax sometimes we should be talking about having a bigger net to collect from rather than knowing that a few people no matter what you do they will pay and you keep on increasing the taxes this is what Ghana has been doing for quite some time. Corporate tax we said in our manifesto is going to come from 25% to 20%. Withholding tax has to be reviewed. What is withholding tax? Is a lazy way of taxing.
Somebody is taxed in advance of an operation and is allowed to take it at the end. What does it do, you taking people’s working capital and is 5 10%, such taxes should be look at. We are looking at production. We are look at making this whole thing friendly to businesses so any tax that creates a hindrance to business we are going to look at.
Our first budget which is going to be in early March will review all this taxes and we will announce to the country through the budget which taxes we will do away with. We did mention them in our manifesto and we going to fulfill the promise. We’ve already met on it three times that’s the economic sectors and we are looking at the relevant figures to inform our budget.
Anthony Karbo– My last question. I just looked at your CV. There’s some part of it that says that you have knowledge in German, I don’t know if it’s the language or it’s a culture of the people if you can throw a few German lines we would be happy.
Osafo Maafo gives few lines of German language (few laughs amongst committee members and public)
Hon Mahama Ayariga MP for Bawku Central takes his turn – Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Chairman Article 78(1) of the constitution says that ministers that shall be appointed by the President with the prior approval of Parliament from among Members of Parliament or persons qualified to be elected as Members of Parliament.
Hon Yaw Osafo Maafo is not a Member of Parliament. But I believe he is among persons qualified to be elected as Members of Parliament. He was a former member of parliament. He’s not a member of parliament. If your read Article 94 of the constitution it says that one of the criteria for being eligible to contest is that he has paid all his taxes or made arrangements satisfactory to the appropriate authorities payment of his taxes and if you also go Article 286 of the constitution which deals with declaration of assets.
It says that when you are in public office before you take over you declare your assets or at the point of taking over you declare your asset and when you leave public office you declare your assets Am simply asking whether you have meet this constitutional eligibility criteria to become a minister of state under Article 78 of the constitution.
Osafo Maafo answers – Thank you very much. I have with my tax grant certificate that qualifies then 94 you talked about and that is up 2016. We were given guidelines by the office of the Appointment Committee to sort this things. I’m a very faithful taxpayer. And on the declaration of assets, I have made the declaration twice when I was Minister and MP and I did both in and out. I’m sure one of the few who did it.
I was one of those who were preaching the theory of declaring assets and making them public. At the time we were overruled by then majority of the people because I did not really understand declaring assets and keeping them confidential only to the Auditor General but that’s my personal view but at the appropriate time if your committee confirms my nomination to further declare my assets, I will do it the third time and whatever method to have been put in place for the declaration of assets I will surely follow suit.
Chairman – For the record the committee has a certificate from the Revenue Agencies Authority that he’s satisfied them with regards to his taxes.
Mahama Ayariga – Mr Chairman with regards to the assets declaration a receipt is normally issued do you have that?
Chairman – As at now he’s not a public officer yet. After his previous position I was not privy to that and am not eligible to ask him in that respect.
Mahama Ayariga – Thank you much Mr Chairman. The second question Hon Yaw Osafo Maafo is your status as senior minister the same as minister of state under article 78 of the constitution, in the sense that you are co-equal to your colleagues like any other minister or are you superior in rank are you higher in rank than any of the other ministers of state and if am asking a question in Parliament for somebody to come and answer questions regarding the economy should you be the one I should ask the question to or I should ask the question to the Minister of Finance?
Osafo Maafo– Thank you Hon member. Since you are referring profusely to the constitution may I take your indulgence to read Article 78(2). With your permission Mr Chairman, article 78(2) reads the President shall appoint such number of Ministers of state as may be necessary for the efficient and am emphasizing efficient running of the state.
The President has the prerogative power to appoint his ministers. As to naming we decide to name an octopus minister octopus minister. I mean there’s only one minister mentioned in the constitution of ours and that’s the Attorney General. In other clauses other ministers have been mentioned finance, interior and finance because they are members of the Security Council.
Now I’m certainly minister of state. His Excellency the President in wisdom defined my work and decided that I should be called senior minister because I have a coordinating role to play and this is not the first time.
J.H. Mensah did same, knowing the kind of experience J.H. Mensah had and I can assure you J.H. Mensah had a tremendous experience and influence on our performance as government so I think I will not answer questions raised on finance it will be answered by the minister of finance. I told you I’m doing a coordinating role and if you want to ask me questions relate to coordination I will come and answer.
Mahama Ayariga – So the simple answer is that you are not superior to any minster, you are equal to all the ministers, if I may used that expression?
Osafo Maafo– I’m a minister who is also a coordinator and in coordinating you could also flex muscles here and there for information. You are coordinating you need to collect data, you need to match things and you can’t just sit and if you ask figures on set targets won’t you request for them
Mahama Ayariga – No! I asked a specific question. As a minister of state under article 78 whether you are co-equal to all your colleague Ministers or you are superior in ranking to them and you said you are a minister who is coordinating and because of that you can flex your muscles. What kind of muscles can you flex, because you are all equal?
Osafo Maafo – If you ask somebody we need data to do certain things, to do analysis and if you ask somebody to bring the data and the data is not coming what do you do? You are coordinating and you must find ways of getting the information and you must give him/her a deadline. I need this information by this time otherwise you can’t run the system. The system must run with discipline, won’t you think so? If you are coordinating and whatever you ask it doesn’t come what do you do? You sit down and look into the air? I think I have to literally have some guidelines.
So far in the transition I’m doing the same and I haven’t had any problem with anybody. People are so ready to make sure that we are sing with the same hymn sheet. We want to achieve economic transformation and that calls some effort that calls for some discipline that calls for analysis. Analysis can only be done with figures and if the figures are with you and you won’t bring it, shouldn’t we take steps to take it from you?
Majority Leader Osei Kyei Mensah-Bonsu chips in – Mr Chairman, a question was asked by the Hon Nii Lante in respect of the position of the NDPC and the answer provided by the nominee is that he personally thinks that planning should not even go beyond ten years. Of course he said it is his personal opinion. We formulate plans for ourselves in 40 years, some people even want to say 50 years development plan.
Mr nominee would you agree that the very architecture of the NDPC itself would suggest that their own plan should not exceed a certain period in particular giving the fact that the member, his membership that is entrusted on the commission by a certain government, to what extent is a certain President who perhaps is a socialist define the path of national development for a capitalist government? To what extent would you agree that the very architecture of the NDPC itself is problematic?
Osafo Maafo– In fact you’ve answered the question for me. It really means that for anybody to think of a forty year development plan when you have governments coming in center right center left and that kind of thing is not practical because the who man this plan matter in their ideology and their thinking and therefore there’s no point in doing a plan which would be authored drastically by people who come in so it within a period that is likely to be sustained.
That is why I think of five ten years and I’m yet to look at these advanced countries. Mr President I have an attachment with the German Ministry of Finance and when you talk about planning in Germany nobody goes beyond ten years.
You see it is a rolling plan, so you do this and you revise and it become attainable, it become workable. The whole world technology is such that a thing which costs us 20 today will cost us one tomorrow so trying to think ahead 40 year to me is problematic because of even the whole architecture of the world’s thinking and technology so I think I completely agree with you. If you asking a question of ideology than 40 years is way too long Mr Chairman
Haruna comes with a follow up– Mr Chairman I’m compelled to come with a follow up to Majority Leader’s question as to the straight dichotomy between capital and social government. Is the NPP a socialist or a capitalist government for the record, Hon Minister designate?
Osafo Maafo– The NPP is center right party. The NPP is center right party and it seems that the NDC is left, as they claim to be.
To be continued.
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